Ron's P-85 Info

[diamonddave]

Here is some info posted last year but edited and with additional detail. Sorry I can only post 2 pages & then start a new post because of SW limits. This is just my info & is not intended to be a complete guide....maybe helpful to those servicing their clutch for the first time.

Polaris P85 Drive Clutch

Care of your drive clutch will extend its life by years. A worn or out of balance clutch is hard on the crank, the drive belt & will reduce performance.

Under Hood Ventilation-At a minimum-install shock tower vents & create flow through ventilation-add vents or increase existing openings at the rear of the cowling. Venting will reduce clutch temps by 10-15 degrees-but not enough to offset poor clutching. New sleds are loaded with foam and they have inadequate ventilation because of EPA noise emission requirements. Foam also draws moisture so remove it. The remaining residue can be removed with 3M tar & bug cleaner. While venting reduces belt heat it is only part of the solution.

Clutch Health-If your clutches run cool they last longer. You should be able to hold your hand on the surface after some long pulls. Hot clutches cause excessive belt wear, clutch wear and are indicative of another problem. I.e. clutch is not dialed, alignment off, broken motor mount, etc. Oak Harbor sells a digital laser temp tool for $30 that is accurate within + or – 2 degrees.

Servicing the Drive Clutch on the Sled-Remove the belt and use two long flat blade screwdrivers to open the clutch. Gently pry with the tip under the spider using the second one once the first screwdriver loses leverage. Place an object (deep well socket) behind the spider to hold the clutch open. Now the rollers and weights are free. You can change weights or clean the bushings. I use a magnet to hold the weight as I remove the bolt.
Clean the wt & roller bushing by spraying LPS-1 into the bushing while rotating the roller. Do not use an oil based product or WD40 since they will attract belt dust. For the wts I put an allen wrench in the bolt and spin the bolt as I lube the bushing. Use a paper towel and air gun to remove excess lube. You can detect a worn roller as you clean-it will have vertical slop. Polaris rollers seem to last forever, but they can go bad. Changing rollers requires special tools to remove the spider. During the season use an air gun to remove debris from the clutch often.
Check the weights for side play since they will eventually wear a “V” at the base of the clutch tower over time. This “V” will eventually result in the tip of the weight swinging off the roller and contacting the spider. When this happens the clutch hangs and the clutch shifts erratically. Flat rollers or flat spots in weights can occur. This condition also creates more wear on the sides of the weight bushing. If your weights run true you will wear the clutch bolt before wearing out the weight bushing.
Clean the clutch sheaves often. Steel wool, fine sandpaper, hot soapy water, Alcohol, cloth with comet cleanser & hot water-take your pick. Brake cleaner & Carb cleaner work but leave belt residue in the pores of the aluminum.
Placing the clutch in the dishwasher can create domestic issues.
TIP
Replacement Weight bushings by Comet are available. (Western Power Spts. #208342-3 are $21.95) To remove a weight bushing you need a tool with a shoulder.
You can also buy steel Comet washers to shim the weight and keep it true in the clutch. (WPS part #204203 6@$4.50) At 500-1000 miles there is enough wear that a single washer will usually fit on the thrust side of the weight. The clutch turns counterclockwise so looking down at the weight nearest you; it would be the right side of the weight is the thrust side. You may need to grind a little off at the base to square the surface for the washer-a Dremmel works great. The slot for the weights will be wider at the top and narrow at the bottom (V) so grind the bottom to square the opening. If you are ambitious you can add the washer to both sides & then all wear is to a washer that can be replaced. This small amount of material won’t change clutch balance much. Once you are done with clutching it’s a good idea to have your primary balanced again.
TIP-The Polaris bolt has a straight shoulder at the end of the thread that will hang up on the washer or weight bushing during insertion. Gently grind a taper on this edge using a bench grinder.


Clutch Removal-A good clutch puller is available from many sources including Polaris. Remove the clutch bolt and insert the puller-tighten till the clutch comes off. There are various methods of holding the clutch while you tighten the bolt; I like a strap wrench or holding tool. A 2X4 braced against the chassis and the clutch also works on some sleds. I don’t care for removing a spark plug and putting rope in to lock the piston nor do I like placing a bar through the clutch. Avoid anything that may stress your crank. Most dealers use an impact wrench-if you do then hold the clutch with one hand. Use an Impact gun as last resort & never hit the end of the puller with a hammer….Ever wonder why some cranks last longer than others?
TIP-A stubborn clutch will usually come free with application of heat to the inner sheave. Try a spot of grease on the tip of the puller and Teflon on the threads for more leverage. Put your heat gun on high and turn the clutch to apply heat evenly. Apply more pressure on the puller and apply more heat. Before replacing the clutch clean all grease and rust spots from the inner taper & crank stub. 200-600 grit emery paper can be used to polish the surfaces. Replace the clutch after cleaning the stub & inner bore-see Indy Dan's post # 20 below.

TORQUE SETTINGS: Drive Clutch
800 Clean Fire torque 80#
700 Clean Fire-80# (07 & newer)
900 & 700 (866&755) Liberty Engines torque 96# (05 & 06)
Other Liberty Engines torque 50#
Older Fuji Engines torque 45#
Torque the 900 at least once more after a short run or elevate the sled & run the track, grab the brake, repeat several times & torque again.

IMPORTANT*** When replacing the outer drive clutch cover make sure to align the X on the spider with the X on the cover.
Your clutch is balanced so why not balance the weights? Polaris allows a tolerance of + or – 1 gram. I always weigh and balance all clutch weights. When you are satisfied with clutching setup, it’s a good idea to have a machine shop rebalance your clutch with the weights installed.

Clutch Alignment-Just some brief things to consider. New sleds should come in spec & is included in normal dealer setup. At least annually check offset and I always check the center

distance on a new sled or after an “event”. Center wrist pin but you can cut them with scissors too.
To remove the spider you need 3 tools (a,b &c below) & I keep my heat gun handy. To remove the spider lock nut I’ve found it helps to have a friend stand on the spider nut tool so it doesn’t pop off (strips the openings) & I use a 4’ length of pipe for leverage. Torque is 120 lbs on reassembly.

Some handy clutch tools are:
a. Clutch Holding Fixture
b. Spider Nut Tool
c. Spider Tool
d. Spider button removal tool
e. Team Driven tool to change springs
f. Clutch holding tool & clutch puller
g. Clutch Offset tool

Starting Line Products & Polaris have a good selection of tools that many dealers carry or can order. Go to www.startinglineproducts.com and check special tools for pricing & selection. I like SLP tools for price & performance.

Team Driven Clutch-Just a note since these require very little care. I clean mine during fall service and adjust deflection as the belt wears. It’s a good idea to remove the clutch during the year to clean & lube the jackshaft and driven clutch (inner shaft opening). Clean, remove any rust and then add a light coat of lithium grease. Wipe most grease off or it will end up on the belt or clutch. Watch that the washers don’t follow the clutch off the shaft. The older Team clutches had a problem with springs binding until they reverse wound the springs. Starting Line sells Delrin washers (set of 3) to free movement. I still put one on each end of the spring just for insurance.
SLP also sells a 1/16” shim washer that you can use to fine tune the shift on a Team Helix. Fits under the snap ring so It reduces the length of the aggressive portion of the shift angle.

Older Polaris Driven-These require more service and performance drops when they aren’t in top condition. To service put the clutch on the floor & press the helix down with a knee to remove the snap ring. A tool is available from SLP. You may have to turn the helix slightly clockwise. Carefully remove your knee since the spring may send the helix flying. Note the location of the spring in the helix for reassembly. Some helixes have a number 1 to 4 to identify the sequence of holes. Normally the spring is in hole 2 or 3. Some A/M helixes have 5 holes. Also note the location of shim washers behind the snap ring and inside of the clutch. Clean the clutch with hot soapy water & replace the 3 buttons frequently. Polish the helix towers with emery paper for a smoother surface. Add a very light coating of lithium grease to the shaft or carefully spray liquid graphite on the shaft. Never lube the helix. Reassembly requires installing the keyway, spring, & twisting the helix 1/6 turn clockwise-then pressing down to add the shim washer & snap ring.

[diamonddave]

Chart:

[diamonddave]

Chart

[diamonddave]

Some clutch tools.

Top is clutch holding tool, 2 clutch pullers, pliers for removing clutch buttons, shoulder tool for replacing weight bushings, Punch for making shims for spacing clutch buttons & last is a digital laser temp tool for recording clutch temps.

[diamonddave]

Top is tool for Team clutch to remove spring assembly; left bottom spider removal tool; middle lock nut tool & finally clutch holding fixture. Not shown is bar for leverage using the 2 tools on the bottom left.

[diamonddave]

Clutch is off of an 09 Dragon, checking specs as indicated in the write up.
Belt side clearance is .050 vs spec of .005-.035. I will disassemble the spider to shim to .010. With this amount of adjustment to the clutch it should be balanced again.





The clearance on weights is .017 to .021 so I will add the comet shim washers to the thrust side. One washer is resting on the thrust side of the weight. The picture also show my measurement between the buttons and tower. These are very close at .002 on two & .003 on the other. Keeping these tight maintains proper clutch alignment through shift.






On reassembly make sure that the X on the spider and the X on the cover align so that your clutch stays in balance.

[diamonddave]

All of the above info MUST be CREDITED toRON for his hard work on the P-85 and for sharing the info for FREE!

[diamonddave]

Another quote from RON:



Just a couple more thoughts on belts & side clearance measurements.
Your new IQ 7 & 8 comes from Poo with the 115 belt. Many of you will purchase the 080 belt for a spare & that's fine except that at some point you may start using the spare belt & that will change belt side clearance. Even the 115 belts aren't the same width so changing belts may require a change to side clearance. (Changing to an A/Mkt weight can change side clearance too.)
This makes a good argument for spending the extra $ for another 115 belt & try to get 2 that are the same width. Another argument for the 115 is that they are nearly indestructable so they won't blow up putting stess on the crank. Normally, the 115 will wear until it's too narrow rather than grenade like the 080.
So if you are adding an A/M clutch kit from Carl's or SLP then put in the new weights before checking side clearance. In a perfect world you should also break-in the belts or at least recheck clearance after you have some miles on your belts. Yes.......belts.......break-in the spare belt as well as the one on the sled.
And don't forget to scrub both belts to remove the mold release agent. I use a powder cleanser like BonAmi, wire brush & lots of hot water.
The clutch & belts are a good place to get a little ANAL!!!!

[diamonddave]

More:


SW member SuprerD8 reported the following change to torque for the P85 spider & lock nut. I verified that Polaris increased recommended torque with Carl's today. SD8 quotes:

"P85 everything but 800cfi
#200 spider
#225 Lock nut

P85 on 800Cfi
#290-300 spider
#300-330 lock nut"

This might work well at the factory where they have all the right tools.
The reality is it's very difficult to torque the spider & especially the lock nut-most of us don't have a torque wrench that goes over 200 #'s & the tool for the lock nut wants to pop off the nut when a lot of torque is applied. Carl's Cycle uses a 4' cheater bar (no torque wrench) to reinstall the helix & lock nut. That's exactly what I use & I have someone stand on top of the bar to keep the tool from popping loose. I'm going to guess that a 200# fella putting his shoulder into the process will apply enough torque to the clutch.
The downside is that if you don't get enough torque the spider will come loose changing belt side clearance & should be apparent quickly. You are done riding until you fix it. You can screw the spider back hand tight to get your sled back to the truck.

[diamonddave]

Here is a copy of info rec'd from SuperD8. Note higher torque plus Loctite 242 for 800 CFI's. Looks like overkill to me!

Blue Threadlocker (248, 242)

Material: Dimethacrylate ester
Application:
For use on mounting bolts, pumps and compressors
Recommended for fasteners from 1/4" through 3/4"
Cures in 10 minutes, full strength in 24 hours
Medium strength, requires handtools to remove once applied
Non-wicking