Go Back   Back Country Rebels - Forums > REBELS WITH A WRENCH > BRAND SPECIFIC TECH / DISCUSSION > ARCTIC CAT

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:12 PM
spomey spomey is offline
Prospect
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utard
Posts: 411
spomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from AR
spomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from AR
Default Clutch tips for blowing a belt...long read

This writeup is so long it reaches the maximum post length, so I will try and respond/post to it quickly to continue.

The first things that you should check if you are concerned about belt heat or blowing belts.

Belts typically break two ways, just break / tear in half or shred and leave chunks everywhere. Typically belts shred into small pieces, that is an indication that it was overheated and failed everywhere, one area gave way and the rest followed right after. If it breaks in half you had a bad belt or just too much power for that belt….did I just say too much power?

Once a belt breaks it is important to clean up as much of the mess as you can (inside your sled) but equally important is to pack out your belt carcass and pieces…yes that is littering if you don’t…no matter how upset you are “suck it up buttercup” pack it out and throw it away at home.

When cleaning out the sled its typically a messy task as belt dust will cover everything. Clean all of the pieces out, all of them you don’t want a missed chunk to bounce out of its hiding spot get lodged in your clutch and takeout you brand new high dollar belt. Not only that, do you carry a spare for your spare? So clean up all the pieces, the ones you can see and the ones you have to feel for.

Remove all of the belt cords as well, they can be wrapped around the primary clutch shaft/crank end, between the primary and the motor….if you miss these they can take out your main seal and cost you a new cylinder. Take your time and do it right, it only takes a few minutes. But don’t burn your forehead on the pipe! I've seen that happen twice guys are looking at the clutch and bellypan and they touch their forehead to a scalding hot pipe.

So now you need to figure out why your shredding belts.

Riding style: The first thing to realize is that all the horsepower your sled creates and uses to move the track…All of it. is transmitted through the belt. Any time the sled changes its speed the belt has to slip in the clutches, the clutch ratios change with power and speed so they are continuously opening and closing, that means the belt is sliding up and down the sheaves creating heat.
Additionally, the secondary moveable sheave rotates during shifting compared to the stationary sheave creating even more heat.

Hard acceleration, high speed runs, turning and diving carves in deep powder, landing off jumps are a few of the high heat generating things the clutches must handle. If your riding hard, stop more often and let your clutches cool. One trick is to remove your belt and drop it in the snow, watch in amazement as it disappears into the snow! however, don’t put snow on your clutches, I think this can stress/thermal crack your clutches and cause them to prematurely fail. I could be wrong but do it and you can hear your clutches popping and tinging…that can’t be good, it might not be bad but at a minimum it sounds bad!

If your just the type of person who can’t stop and take a break, stop and change belts!

Also the highest stress a belt sees is at max speed because of the gear ratio to track load, How many belts have you blown racing a buddy on the road?

Clutch Health: Even though you might think your clutches are healthy, you may be surprised. I know I have been! With the high power and torque of today’s machines many symptoms can be masked.
Remove the clutches and take them apart (as much as you can) and clean and inspect them proper function, and look for; broken springs, stuck/worn rollers and weights, gouged sheaves, stuck friction reducer sections, excessive looseness/slop, cracking, excessive wear…

Now that the clutches check out and are healthy. Are you getting the RPM that you want 7300 for stock M1000. Are you getting the acceleration you want? Is the RPM constant during a long climb? Take notes so that when you check the clutch temperatures you can remember.


Clutch Offset, Alignment deflection:
Clutch alignment tools
2005 - 2006 M7 =.708 offset bar
2007 - 2009 M8/M1000 = 1.655” offset bar
2010 M8/M1000 = 1.507” offset bar

1.jpg

Offset: Places the secondary in the correct position on the shaft. The shims behind secondary adjust this by moving the secondary in or out. This aligns the stationary sheave of the secondary to the stationary sheave of the primary.

A & B = touching
C = .060±.020” (1.5mm±1.0mm) - Alignment bar to clutch sheave.

CAUTION: Make sure no freeplay or float of the secondary on the input shaft.

Alignment: Is to compensate for the torque of the motor flexing the motor mounts under load. The torque of the motor trying to accelerate the track/sled/you (weight) will pull on the belt and “pull the clutches towards one another. The secondary is more firmly mounted to the bulkhead so the primary clutch will pull back towards the secondary slightly.

A & B= touching
Y - X = 060±.020” (1.5mm±1.0mm)

If the measurement is off, the motor needs to be moved. Remove both clutches. Loosen each attach point of the motor and motor mounts. Just loosen all of them; Both sides of each motor mount. Using a 2x4 block tapered on each end, drive the block between the crankshaft and the input shaft until the engine moves. Retighten everything install the clutches and recheck.

Deflection: Do this regularly as your belt wears...This is adjusted with the shims on the secondary cap.
Less shims (16) spreads the sheaves apart allowing the belt further into the clutch more belt deflection. More shims (16) the belt rides higher in the clutch and allow less belt deflection.
Optimum deflection has the clutch touching at the bottom of the belt top cogs (see picture), shim the secondary clutch until the sled just barely doesn’t move when it is at idle. Just loose enough not to squeak
2.jpg3.jpg


An alternate method to using an alignment bar: Jack up back of sled with secondary floating on a lubed spline and run gently..........coast to stop, measure from back of secondary clutch to engine mount frame..........do this several times, shim secondary clutch to this measurement and set belt deflection.
Once you are properly aligned, if you still have belt heat issues. Here is a list of items to try


Motor movement under load causing clutch heat.
Install push-block from the M7 under the oil tank on the right side of the motor, the hole already exists, you do not have to remove the oil tank. This can also be used to change belt alignment
4.jpg5.jpg
19 – 8042-486 Nut

20 – 0608-394 Tube

21 – 0608-396 Bumper

22 – 8020-220 Screw
__________________
Spomey

Trees are mostly air....mostly.....Cept'n that center part!!!!

Last edited by spomey; 09-24-2017 at 04:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:16 PM
spomey spomey is offline
Prospect
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utard
Posts: 411
spomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from AR
spomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from AR
Default

Another option is to install an additional motor mount under the motor
4 – 8020-136 Bolt

6 – 8047-426 Nut

19 - 0608-549 Bracket

20 – 0608-467 Cap

21 – 1623-603 Bolt
6.jpg7.jpg

Another upgrade is the 0708-559 Engine mount bracket the later version has stiffer (solid) front motor mounts.
2007 = 0708-470
2008 = 0708-513
2009, 2010, 2011 = 0708-559
8.jpg


Replace rubber bumpers every 500 miles about $10,
drive new one into place using mallet and soapy water
25 = 0608-462
9.jpg


Venting:
Side panel vent
Shock tower vent
Shock tower vent above the belt guard and Port the top of the clutch cover with 1" holes (12 or so)
Add louver vent on belt guard, facing forward to catch cool air coming through stock hood vent above.
Add exhaust fan “blow hole” name brand or home made one.
Add hood vents to top of hood and in the dash to increase air flow. Or add a 1-1/2” hood lift block near the steering post to flex up the center of the hood and allow heat to escape…cheap and easy.

Could snow be the culprit:
Whenever you add venting you run the risk of moisture getting to the clutches causing slippage.
Look for any path that snow or water can get to your clutches, through the hood, through vents, or through the plastic seams. The belly pan right below the clutches can crack, tear or separate and allow snow onto the clutches. I Highly recommend the HD skid plate for full coverage. P/N 5639-223 for this reason5639-223-99.jpg

Reduce slippage / keeping things clean:
Clean clutches every ride - spray with brake cleaner and blow with compressed air at a minimum.
Scrub your clutch sheaves every few rides with a scotchbrite or 300 grit and soap/water to remove belt glaze.
Clean all belts (the one that’s on and your sled, spares and new ones) …an easy way to do it is clean them in the dishwasher. Yes, it works like a champ! Or Wash all new belts with soap/water and scotchbrite or scrub brush before use and every few rides.
Look under the hood for dirty areas…if there are ANY exhaust leaks (Y pipe to motor, Y pipe to pipe, bungs for O2 or temp sensor, power valves, Pipe to can, can to outside or any return exhaust)? Exhaust carries unburnt oil, it can coat everything under the hood and cause belt slippage.0
If your DD drive secondary is leaking oil or there are any signs of oil leaking around the fill or drain plug or splines on the DD that oil can migrate to the clutches and or belt, the bolt that holds the secondary on has a vent slot cut into it, if the sled is on its side it can leak this slot is the vent for the diamond drive.
DD (design flaw?) with the system venting through the output shaft. install 2602-191 gasket kit.

Belt break in: Clean everything including the belt to remove mold release and processing chemicals.
Break in of under 50mph track speed for the first 20 miles, the theory is that the rubber abd belt compounds need to flex together and create internal heat to “temper” so they need to heat and cool down, heat and cool down a few times….one trick is to remove your belt and drop it in the snow to cool.

Gearing: An overlooked belt save is put M8 gears in (57/63) instead of (60/60) gears down about 4% and puts less stress on the drive belt. Gearing down to 55/65 gears down about 15% in my opinion is too low. The sled launches super hard, but has much less top end. However, my sled was set to run at 7200 Rpm. The 2010 M8 run 55/65 earing at 8200 rpm. If you are spinning your motor at that speed or close that Rpm it might not have that drastic of an affect.
Another way to lower gearing is to reduce the driver diameter, from 8 to 7 tooth.
Where is the heat coming from: The tips above were geared to removing heat but there may be underlying problems! So do these checks.
If everything is aligned, clean, and working properly look for additional sources of heat…consider that the crank may be transmitting heat to the primary then to the belt then to the secondary. A lean cylinder may be adding to the problem.
Use an infrared (no contact) heat measuring gun, most don't like bright shinny aluminum surfaces, to check clutch temps, I generally put a spot of flat black paint on primary and secondary clutches not on the belt surface.

Check your crank:
Take along a note book........go up the trail at modest speeds, measure both sheaves of each clutch if you can and the crank (between primary and engine cases). Make notes of temps and write them down. Feel clutch's and note " feel temps" (this is to try and calibrate your hands to what the temperatures feel like for future when you don’t have the temp sensor…. can you hold your hands on 135 degrees for 30 seconds? What about 165?)

Now try more speed and a few hills, maybe some deep powder turns, then check all the temps again.

Compare the temperatures:
If the crank is now way hot then you may have bad bearing, lean condition or detonation causing heat to dissipate out through the clutch contributing to clutch temps. Your belts and clutches heat while working them harder, crank should stay constant. If the inner primary clutch sheave is much hotter than the outer is another indication.
If the crank temp is constant and is lower than the clutches, it is safe to assume that belt slipping on aluminum is creating the heat problem.
So now the question is…is slipping happening more in the primary or secondary.
If the primary is hotter than the secondary the problem is most likely there, if the secondary is much hotter than the primary the problem is most likely there.
The clutch temps in the secondary are usually a bit higher than in the primary. In the secondary, one sheave rotates for clutch opening and the other is stationary, so the belt has to slip on the moveable sheave. So that moveable sheave will be most likely hotter than the stationary one.
Look at all the sheaves and the belt and try to figure where the heat is being generated.
If the secondary is hotter and the belt is close to or the same temperature as the secondary then its most likely there is a bit of belt slipping going on. An adjustment is more secondary spring tension …. On some models, there is a white plastic adjuster, 07/08 stock set up makes this easy, go ˝ a turn in! or disassemble secondary and add black plastic spacer under the spring. check for lower or higher temps.

Temps in secondary drop?? If they do, ride and monitor this, if you go too far you may have to find a little more helix to make up for lack of upshift.

If the primary hotter than secondary, a big helix (steep ramp) in the secondary with adequate spring pressure can overload the primary and can be a heat creator in the primary while the adjustment needs to be made in the secondary.
__________________
Spomey

Trees are mostly air....mostly.....Cept'n that center part!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-15-2017, 08:32 AM
CatndHat's Avatar
CatndHat CatndHat is offline
REBEL
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wyoming Mtns
Posts: 845
CatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from AR
CatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from ARCatndHat Has earned a rub and tug from AR
Thumbs up

Great information, and reminds me to buckle down to clean, inspect, and order belts/worn tune parts now before November chilly shop temps. Old digits fumble a bit less in September!
__________________
www.jhavalanche.org

Team Frosty Fro
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-17-2017, 08:03 AM
76FoMoCo's Avatar
76FoMoCo 76FoMoCo is offline
Captain Stick Head
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 5,636
76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP
76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP76FoMoCo Offical PLP
Default

spomey you back to a cat?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:08 AM
Mule's Avatar
Mule Mule is offline
"bcr forum security services"
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DM79LN
Posts: 29,278
Mule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLP
Mule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLP
Default

Tied clutches are awesome!
And yeah, for the $40 or so the alignment bar runs... they're worth it.
Better yet, find a friend that has one. :

__________________
Crazy, not stupid | "Helmets make it hard to hear natural selection calling."
N* WebChat on irc://irc.nightstar.net/#snowmobiling
#155 | Mule's Photos | BackCountryRebels | ThumperTalk | Tekrider | TylersBA
I am a Snowmobiler!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-17-2017, 01:37 PM
Snowizard's Avatar
Snowizard Snowizard is offline
REBEL
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brainerd,MN
Posts: 3,223
Snowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLP
Snowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule View Post
Tied clutches are awesome!
Seriously, of what do you speak, "tied clutches". sounds kinky
I understand the alignment jig. Have used them.
WIZ
__________________
Rebel member 112.
'05 Cat T660-Turbo 4-Stroke.
http://brainerdlakesareasnowmobiletrails.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-17-2017, 04:08 PM
Mule's Avatar
Mule Mule is offline
"bcr forum security services"
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: DM79LN
Posts: 29,278
Mule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLP
Mule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLPMule Offical PLP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowizard View Post
Seriously, of what do you speak, "tied clutches". sounds kinky
I understand the alignment jig. Have used them.
WIZ
Where standard TEAM clutches twist (sheaves twist against each other axially by the rollers in the helix cuts) ... tied clutches tie the inner/outer sheaves together, more mechanics inside the clutch ride in the helix.
Because the sheaves aren't twisting against the belt, your belt runs cooler, lasts longer, clutch sheaves stay a LOT cleaner, and all that energy that you're wasting heating a belt and overcoming friction forces of that twisting go to the track, where you can actually use the power.


(yes, I know this photo is ridiculous)

Team Tied on the left, Paragon on the right. Wish that Paragon fit on an Axys.
__________________
Crazy, not stupid | "Helmets make it hard to hear natural selection calling."
N* WebChat on irc://irc.nightstar.net/#snowmobiling
#155 | Mule's Photos | BackCountryRebels | ThumperTalk | Tekrider | TylersBA
I am a Snowmobiler!

Last edited by Mule; 08-17-2017 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:20 PM
Snowizard's Avatar
Snowizard Snowizard is offline
REBEL
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brainerd,MN
Posts: 3,223
Snowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLP
Snowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLPSnowizard Offical PLP
Default

How the he!! are you going to pack all the stuff in your garage when you are ready to move?
Interesting on clutches. Never knew that.
__________________
Rebel member 112.
'05 Cat T660-Turbo 4-Stroke.
http://brainerdlakesareasnowmobiletrails.com/

Last edited by Snowizard; 08-18-2017 at 10:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-24-2017, 04:33 AM
spomey spomey is offline
Prospect
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utard
Posts: 411
spomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from AR
spomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from ARspomey Has earned a rub and tug from AR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76FoMoCo View Post
spomey you back to a cat?
No not yet, selling my 10 M8 this season, a guy at work was asking about m1000 clutch temps and i ran across my old notes and decided others might benefit.

have to say rode the XM for about 10 rides, then my son came up with me on the m8...we swapped, right then i decided to sell the m8.

I never thought I would have said that as a devout M series fan...Picked up an 850 this season. (selling my XM also) looking for probably an AXYS as a backup or possibly a 16/17 cat. I am looking forward to running the 850 with the 18 cat my buddy bought.

what are you on this season?
__________________
Spomey

Trees are mostly air....mostly.....Cept'n that center part!!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply
Back Country Rebels - Forums > REBELS WITH A WRENCH > BRAND SPECIFIC TECH / DISCUSSION > ARCTIC CAT

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:58 PM.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Managed by wDa @ WD ™

Designed by Military Ltd