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Old 12-25-2009, 11:04 PM
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Default Cool TECH TIPS 600/700/800 CFI's Free Mods & Best Bang for the Buck

Here Is some discussion of the 600/700/800 CFI's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraven View Post
TECH TIPS


BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK MODS

Get a $25.00 annual subscription to DYNOTECH www.dynotechresearch.com

PC-5 from DYNOTECH Jim, Best $365.00 You'll spend, (585) 993-2777

Get the Autotune for an additional $250.00 or you can add that at a later date.


ALMOST FREE MODS

PRIMARY CLUTCH

1) Check your primary sheave side clearance, should be .010" to .015" with a BRAND NEW BELT, mine & my bud's were .070" from the factory. Increases acceleration and reduces the slamming effect onto the crank.

2) Send your clutch out for balancing, (Preferably after the above step has been completed) noticeably smoother running and extends crank life. SLP ($35.00) and others here on SnoWest can perform this service.

3) Install a new primary clutch spring @ the start of EVERY season.


SECONDARY

1) Install only ONE DELRIN washer under the spring cup (less than $5.00)

2) Install a new spring @ the start of every season


BOTH PRIMARY & SECONDARY

1) Align your clutches (center to center 11.5" EXACTLY, and check for engine crooked, pictures posted in the "link" below as to how the the alignment tool SHOULD contact the front and rear of the secondary) Check this using the SLP or TEAM tool, as the Genuine Gold Plated POLARIS tool has approx .070" of built-in "kick" which is NOT what you want. Check your alignment tool bar for "straightness" with a 3' or so carpenter's level, drywall "T" square, etc., and vernier calipers. mountainhorse reported (2) defective SLP tools. Just because it's NEW doesn't mean it's PERFECT!


A) WITH SLP PUSH LIMITER: 0 to .020" air gap @ the rear of the secondary, (with the front of the secondary touching the alignment bar)


B) WITHOUT SLP push limiter: .020" to .040" of air gap @ the rear of the secondary (with the front of the secondary touching the alignment bar)

You may have to slot the engine bracket(s) to get it PERFECT. On mine and my bud's 07 D7 we had to slot the Mag side engine bracket almost 3/8" to straighten things out. A picture of the Mag side engine bracket is in the link below, do this step ONLY if neccesary! Double check your c/c measurements after you get the engine "straight" and then slot BOTH engine brackets an EQUAL amount (if necceasry) to obtain the 11.5" center to center EXACTLY.


2) Check and adjust the offset after the above has been completed. This is E-Z to do, just adjust shims on the secondary shaft until the secondary touches the alignment bar. You want approx .030" of free play as well.

3) Lightly sand both the primary and secondary clutches with 180 grit sandpaper perpendicular to the way the belt rides and wipe down with lacquer thinner. Mark the primary with a fat black marker, make a few full throttle runs, and see where your belt rides up to on the clutch.


4) Wash/scrub (plastic bristle brush) your BRAND NEW belt w/soap & hot water, and let dry overnight, sounds weird but it removes the "mold release" compound that would otherwise would get smeared all over your nice clean clutches.


T.P.S. CHECKING & RE-SETTING PROCEDURE (Don't overlook this, easier than you think, don't just trust the dealer to "check" this with their digital wrench)
1) Build a tester for $10.00 with parts from Radio Shack, look @ the "INCREASING YOUR IQ" thread @ the top of the IQ forum, all the info is there. Then go to the 900 Section, there's a neat video that walks you through the process. Thanks to mountainhorse and the full monte for providing that info.

2) When setting the T.P.S. on C.F.I.'s, the throttle valves MUST BE FULLY CLOSED, then set it @ .70 volts +/-.01 volts for the 600/700/800

3) After that, turn the idle speed screw until the voltmeter reads .94 - .95 volts +/- .01 but this varies with model.

4) Using an analog style volt meter, gradually open and close the throttle and watch the voltmeter move gradually, erratic readings indicate a faulty T.P.S.


OTHER: OIL PUMP CALIBRATION, CHAIN TENSION, TRACK TENSION, ENGINE LIMITER, OTHER PERFORMANCE TIPS

1) Check your oil pump calibration, mine was 38:1 stock, 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 turns on the 10mm adjuster nuts and it's 57:1 now for the last 1200 miles. Oil pump marks are suppose to align @ the 3:00 position as a starting point. Red dot on the case has a short (1/4" long) horizontal mark on it as does the oil pump arm, these are suppose to line up @ idle AS A STARTING POINT, and fine tune from there until you achieve the desired 55:1- 60:1 gas/oil ratio. Picture of the oil pump posted below.


2) Check your chain case tension, adjust it to where the chain almost touches the back of the case with finger pressure. While you're in the chain case, place a metal straight edge across the sprockets to make sure they're EXACTLY in line. Shim with 1" I.D. "Automotive valve spring shims" available from auto cylinder head rebuilding shops, Summit Racing, etc. Same shims also work on the secondary shaft for getting the offset "dialed in".

3) Run your track looser that POLARIS specs, approx 1" to 1 1/2" sag just sitting there on the stand.

4) Install the SLP push arm engine limiter on the MAG side, approx 20 minute installation, only 2 holes to drill, SLP Part # 23-63, $42.95 Picture posted below.

5) Check Ski alignment, 1/8" toe out is preferred

6) Place a small piece of duct tape over your headlight adjuster knob, prevents water, snow, and ice from being ingested into your engine.

7) Remove your air box and wipe down the seam area with lacquer thinner and duct tape the seam, prevents Kevlar dust particles from being ingested into your engine.

8) Plug the exhaust purge hoses coming off the exhaust valves, this makes it like the 2001-2004 set-ups and definitely improves acceleration by allowing the exhaust valves to open sooner. An added benefit is the hot exhaust that was "held back" in the engine is released sooner, thereby effectively reducing internal engine temps.

9) Install a simple 1/4" shut off (available @ hardware stores) onto the P.T.O. side cylinder head, where the coolant line heats up the throttle bodies, this comes stock on 2007 Ski-Doo 800 and other models

10) Clean your exhaust valves and bores, they're dirtier & gummier than you realize. While you're there check the bellows for small rips and tears.


DEBATEABLE

SLP Big Air Kit and (4) Flo-Rites, ($42.95 + 4 X $19.95+ $122.00) E-Z to install, I just didn't notice any difference, that's all.


WASTE OF $$$$$$$$$$ I.M.O.

V-FORCE reeds, Maybe ever so slightly more responsive on it's best day, definitely NOT worth the $258.00 and a lot of installation time. Many riders have reported durability issues, as in after only one season. One more reason to not buy 'em.


Hope this helps, have a GREAT season!!!!!!
_____________________________________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by MOWER800 View Post
what is the benafits of the pc v on a stock D8 with a slp pipe & can

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraven View Post


In warm weather testing (50*) there was no benefit to leaning down the SLP set-up. (as the pipe leans out the already rich running set-up) AS THE STOCK e.c.u. RICHENS UP CONSIDERABLY BELOW 30*

So that may change with colder weather testing.

PC-5 on a stock pipe was good for approx 6-7 h.p. if I remember correctly.

PC-5 with a stock pipe was almost same as SLP piped with can and no PC-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by t!m250 View Post
All good information.

My question is: How can stuff like the primary cluch cleances and oil pump
calibration be off on a brand new sled???
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:05 PM
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Ghostwhite Ghostwhite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraven View Post
Becuase these sleds like everything else are mass produced where time is an issue, and they're rushing to "get it out the door" and should they be "corrected" at the dealer and is it on their checklist, probably.

Rather than argue with the dealer (as I started to when I found my engine was "crooked) and have them say, "Well, it's running and not really causing any problems, so it isn't covered under warranty") I'll take the time and do it right myself.

I've had (2) guys that don't know one another and both informed me that the rear suspension frong swing-arm is off by 3/8" thereby kicking the rails off to one side. Now I haven't checked mine yet, but just another example of new stuff that isn't right, and we can't blame the dealer for that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar Express View Post
Kraven,

Thanks for taking the time to post these suggestions. I will be strongly considering many of them.

I did a few mods to my 09 D8, and posted a thread with the pics and some comments for each 'mod'. I'm a big "why" guy, I most always want to know why a mod is recommended. This helps me decide if I want to do that change, or if it wouldn't apply to my situation.

So, I'll go ahead and ask:

1)what is the benefit of the coolant shut-off? Does the heat in the throttle bodies have that much effect on the incoming air temp? Will it have any detrimental effects on my cooling system?

2) Since you recommend replacing the springs each season, I'm going to assume that's because you have found their spring rate changes with use and/or time?

3) I've heard to allow for as much as .250" 'float' on the secondary. It seems to me that more float = larger window of function. Is there a downside to allowing more secondary float?


I can see the writing on the wall, that I might be buying a clutch alignment tool in the near future.

Thanks,
PE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraven View Post
Polar Express,

All excellent questions, and agreed on "why" as well,

1) The colder intake charge should make more power (denser fuel charge) This shut-off comes standard on all 2007 Ski-Doo 800's (and other models) with their advice in the owner's manual of turning it on only in dusty snowy conditions.

When I asked Casey (Team Bayport Racing ) about dynoing this mod by just clamping off the rubber coolant hose with vise grips while on the dyno, he said he would, and even more interestingly he admitted that he already did it
to his sled (But didn't want to advertise that, lol) Hopefully the dyno tests will occur soon, just waiting on colder weather.

No detrimental effects on cooling as after the throttle bodies it just dumps the coolant into the overflow tank. If anything, it would cool the cylinder head more, albeit by a miniscule amount.

I'm also interested to see if the colder air intake charge alters the A/F mixture (possibly requiring more fuel) and hopefully we'll have that answer soon with the next dyno test.

2) I've always personally found a noticeable performance gain with a fresh spring in the primary @ the beginning of the season. My buddy owns a cylinder head rebuilding shop and we used his valve spring tester on new and old springs and found a measureable difference after the spring was used for only 1 season. As an alternative to purchasing a spring each and every season, Sometimes we would pull the cover off the primary and let the primary sit in the fully extended position during summer storage.

The loss on a secondary was not as significant as the primary spring, but figured there had to be some "loss" so I started to change them out every season.

3) I've read that also about excessive amount of "float " on the secondary shaft, I just don't agree with it, leaves WAY TOO MUCH opportunity for the belt to get out of line. Heard the arguments of "well the belt will pull it into lline" don't believe it.

I still prefer and recommend approx .030" of float, I can't see any benefit to going much beyond that.

When I found my 2007 D7 and my bud's D7 to be so far off from the factory and the dealer saying "uh, well it's not really breaking belts or anything, so it's not an issue". After that and straightening mine out, and experiencing the performance difference, it's well woth doing.


Hope this helps,



It's interesting since I started the Tech Tips here and on H.C.S. several members have P.M.'d me with things they've found "wrong" with their "new" sleds, example is the swing arm/cross shaft posted a couple of posts above.

I feel there's a significant amount of performance to be gained from "correcting" these issues before going on to pipes, reeds, etc,
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeler View Post
What is the best way to plug the exhaust valve lines. Why do they even put them on from the factory if they hurt performance ? I have 2007 660 RMK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraven View Post
Beeler,

Emmissions is the reason for the purge line and solenoid. That delays the opening of the exhaust valves.

Easiest way to plug 'em is to remove the "T" and replace it with a 5/16" bolt 2" long w/head cut off, clamp in place, done. Wrap/wire tie the leftover hose leading to the solenoid, as the opposite end vents to the atmosphere into the front hood area.

Do NOT disconnect the wires leading to the solenoid, that will create an error message to pop up.

Always E-Z to return to emmissions compliant if need be, trade in, resale, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixat38 View Post
Great info Kraven. Somewhere around '08 the oil pumps changed. One has a longer arm than the other. The alignment marks for the factory standard/benchmark setting are in different spot also. All that aside the adjustment proceduere with the 10mm nuts Kraven descirbes is the same. Even tho Poo recommencds a special tool (wrench) to loosen/tighten them. They are a bear to get to.

My wifes '08 600 was using oil to the tune of 20:1. When the pump was inspected it had a bur (or something inside, bent shaft maybe) and it would hang up and not return all the way. We decided to replaced the pump. I currently shoot for 3oz of oil per gallon with is right at the 40:1 mark. YMMV.

My Yamaha Viper has a shut off valve on the coolant line to the carbs. The carb heater line if you will. I shut it off the day I got the sled and never looked back. I will be installing a valve in the 600.

Yamaha doesn't recommend opening it until it's 15-20 degrees out side. I have never had a problem and I've ridden well below that. Reason being is the air box temp usually runs about 20 degrees warmer than the OSA temp. I suppose if you were blasting down the trail at 5 degrees outside you may want it on, but usually grinding away in the powder the under hood temps stay up pretty good. Again it's a Yamaha but I'd think most all mfrs would be simlilar.

Good info. Thanks again for the post Kraven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraven View Post
Sixat 38,

You're welcome, glad to help out.

Couple of things

1) Regarding that oil pump issue, a few guys on H.C.S. reported similar problems and they were installing return springs onto the oil pump arms.

2) Regarding the coolant shut-off, that came stock on my bud's 2007 Ski-DOO 800 carbed and the owner's manual says to turn it on heat only for dusty/snowy conditions, and not for dry super cold conditions,?????

other than that, this thread was made a "sticky" it's contained in the "INCREASING YOUR IQ" THREAD AT THE TOP OF THIS SECTION


Hope this helps
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmag215 View Post
hey lots of good info on here, wish i new more on how to do this stuff, but i suppose studying and practicing will help out. my question is i have a 07 600 rmk carb model is there any of these steps that i should not do or anything else that you know of that i can do. also is it going to hurt anything if i just quit using the oil injection and start mixing my gas/oil 57:1 with premium. also what does leaving the track loose accomplish. and we usually run at 7000-11000 feet do i need to change my exaust valve springs for higher altitude or anything. thanks again for all the awesome info, wish i had someone to show me how to do this stuff so i could learn more!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraven View Post
JMAG,

I would keep the oil injection.

On the carbed version the T.P.S. gets set differently, at wide open throttle, 4.0-4.1 volts, same tester.

Usually the high altitude spring is a little lighter tension than the flatlander set-up. Perhaps you can leave the stock set-up in there for now, and plug off the hoses and go from there.

After that you can reference the exhaust spring chart and try one step lighter.

Most of the rest applies.

Any questions, just post or p.m. me, be glad to help out.
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