Solid rivets

[rdr99]

Want to try using solid rivets. What do I need? Have an air hammer already. What hammer bit do I need? Just going to do 3/16 and 1/4 rivets. How heavy of a bucking bar? Do I need a flush rivet tool?

[KWB]

I am no expert on tooling for bucked rivets but they are not as strong as many of the pulled variety.

I don't have the stuff handy right now but this goes for both clamp and shear strenghts.

[koreytm]

Originally Posted by KWB

I am no expert on tooling for bucked rivets but they are not as strong as many of the pulled variety.

I don't have the stuff handy right now but this goes for both clamp and shear strenghts.

That's like saying all steel tubing is stronger than aluminum tubing...simply not true. A low grade, thin walled steel tube may fail in a situation where a high grade, thicker walled aluminum tube wouldn't. There are different grades of solid rivets and different grades of pull/pop rivets, and each have their own application.

I have not dove into the mechanical strengths and physical properties of these types, as I really haven't had to. I work with an aircraft mechanic/pilot so he has pointed me in the right directions. This is what I have learned from the aircraft guys:

- Solid rivets are considered to be the #1 best possible option (pending grade/material quality per application)

- CherryMaxx rivets are a close second.

The philosophy is that anywhere a solid rivet can be used, it should. If you don't have the room to buck, then you can use a CherryMaxx.

My oval racing partner put all his bulkheads together with solid buck rivets, and uses Cherry's everywhere else. I used CherryMaxx on my entire sled. Neither one will fail under normal racing conditions. Now if either one of us rolls or goes hard into the bales it will be a different story, haha.

My vote is for CherryMaxx...a lot less messing around and still very high mechanical properties.

[Get Lucky]

Originally Posted by koreytm

That's like saying all steel tubing is stronger than aluminum tubing...simply not true. A low grade, thin walled steel tube may fail in a situation where a high grade, thicker walled aluminum tube wouldn't. There are different grades of solid rivets and different grades of pull/pop rivets, and each have their own application.

I have not dove into the mechanical strengths and physical properties of these types, as I really haven't had to. I work with an aircraft mechanic/pilot so he has pointed me in the right directions. This is what I have learned from the aircraft guys:

- Solid rivets are considered to be the #1 best possible option (pending grade/material quality per application)


- CherryMaxx rivets are a close second.

The philosophy is that anywhere a solid rivet can be used, it should. If you don't have the room to buck, then you can use a CherryMaxx.

My oval racing partner put all his bulkheads together with solid buck rivets, and uses Cherry's everywhere else. I used CherryMaxx on my entire sled. Neither one will fail under normal racing conditions. Now if either one of us rolls or goes hard into the bales it will be a different story, haha.

My vote is for CherryMaxx...a lot less messing around and still very high mechanical properties.

You said it to the Q.

[KWB]

Agreed - there are grades of all.

I was lazy in my post but given the OP was asking questions about tooling to do bucked rivets odds are that the skillset to get a high strength joint wasn't there.

For most all people in most applications picking a better grade blind pop-rivet will result in better overall joint strength than a bucked rivet. (better grade does not mean upgrading to steel body/mandrel pop rivet that you get at the local home improvement store)

Magnalok (sp) are also a good choice blind rivet.

[777]

The easiest way to do what your asking (and I have done it) is to take one of the chisels (the one you least use) and cut it off at the shaft below the chisel end. Leaves you with a shaft. Then in the vise, use a large drill bit to concave the end so to properly mushroom the rivet. I welded a short collar on to help allignment. For backing I used a big brass drift with the end also concaved. You will want the drift to have a smooth contact surface as close to the shape of the "pretty" end of the rivet as possible. It is much easier with two people for the job. It's tricky not to slip off the rivet and dent the head. If you slip off with the air hammer it can make ugly fast.
I have used this method on a Peterbilt and it matches the factory aricraft rivets perfectly but I wouldn't do it otherwise as it is a royal pain in the ass.

Hope this helped

[Turbo]

You can get the mandrel for you air hammer from mcmaster-carr. I think it was like $15 or something. There are also a couple different grades of solid rivets as well. Some that are softer and some that are pretty hard. Mc master sells the softer ones. I think you can get the harder ones from MSC.

[snowdad4]

check out aircraft tool supply, ats.com, i believe. all you need for your project. and if your doing alot of riveting and havent used or heard of clecos, i highly recommend the minimal investment for these awesome tools. you will not find a more steadfast way of fastening than the use of solid rivets, for the right application.

[koreytm]

Originally Posted by snowdad4

check out aircraft tool supply, ats.com, i believe. all you need for your project. and if your doing alot of riveting and havent used or heard of clecos, i highly recommend the minimal investment for these awesome tools. you will not find a more steadfast way of fastening than the use of solid rivets, for the right application.

x50,000 on the Clecos! I guess I tend to take them for granted. Never drill the next hole until you have a Cleco in the last one!

I ordered my last batch of Cherry's from D&D Aircraft supply. I had always used Aircraft Spruce & Supply/Aircraft Tool Supply, but on my last order of 600 rivets I saved about $50 at D&D. I think ATS would have been about $450 with shipping and D&D was $400 with shipping.

Talking about grades of rivets...I just had to drill out some of the factory Polaris rivets that Wahls used on my ovals chassis last night. They retail for over $1 per rivet and they leave the stud in like a Cherry so I expected them to be a real bitch. Boy, I was not impressed...the stud was effortless to punch out. Then, when I leaned into it with the drill (thinking it would take forever) it went right through like a soft generic rivet! I can't even knock the stud out of a Cherry, let alone drill it out...those have to come off with a grinder.

[DKY]

bucked a lot of rivets building aluminium fishing boats

most people tend to over do it and smash the rivet too far, it don't take much to flatten the backside too far

also, a lot of new people will slip off the head and hammer the pizz out of the side of the boat


I suggest doing some pratice before you attack the side of your sled with it