Time to start thinking!

[cooksend]

OK folks, I got my Hawk last year and started to work out some issues and did get it on the snow for a few rides! This year I plan to keep up the work and make this thing work like it should.

When I got the Hawk the rear skid was almost locked! I purchased the suspension relocation brackets thinking this was the fix. Notso much! I need to find someone who knows specs and how to rebuild and revalve Hawk shocks! Anyone got some info like that???

2004 600 Hawk 136

[TLKD]

First, you' ve got the stiffest springs in there. If you're less than 200 pounds they will be too stiff even with the relocation brackets.

'04 came up with 350lbs/in, all the other 600/800 came out with the "do-it-all" 280lbs/in. You'll only be able to do so much with the valving, more on the damping side and maybe make it more or less speed sensitive but you won't be able to fight the falling rate action of the lever. What I tried back then before building my own was throwing progressive 280-400 springs at it. Worked way better but it was still not fighting it enough. Something a little progressive like 300-600 would be the ticket I think. But custom springs like that are expensive... paid mine about 180 a piece. They found a new home now ! Or if you can find a set of 503 springs... !

Mid july is a good time to start tearing stuff apart !!!

[cooksend]

Any idea if they still build the 503 spring and what a part # would be? All I know is that I have watched vids of other 600's and their suspension works! Mine will cycle without the shocks in but once the skid is installed my 175# naked arse cant even get it to move! Misserable trying to tool around the trails or rip down a tracked up powerline!!!

[TLKD]

It'll always remain pretty hard to make them work like an MX or DH Bike suspension at stock form... The falling rate design just doesn't make sense. That's what makes it hard to compress at beginning of stroke and easy to compress at end of stroke, it should be the opposite; the first part of the suspension should be quite soft/loose to soak up whatever's at ya and then should get harder at the end to prevent bottoming. The BEST way to "tune" this "curve" is by designing the levers to do this part of the job (and tune your shock to deal with the damping type of thing), give the shock more or less lever to "push" against the suspension wherever you want the progression or disgression of your curve to be at precise moment on the stroke. (or give the suspension more or less lever to push on the shock, however you see it...)

Maybe a 503 guy who switched over to a ZX2 can provide you springs ???

[cooksend]

How about it y'all, got any 503 springs available?

TLKD. How about a revalve as well to make the shock more progressive valving? Is this shock or shock body capable of this type of stack? I am not apposed to finding other shocks and having them valved and sprung for the correct rates and center to center! How different are the shock mounts? Some Zero Pro's would be easy to come by...

[BlazinBya]

Air shocks are all rising rate design....find a set of floats or RydeFX air shocks and have them shortened and revalved

[J&L Snowhawk]

Skip from MT. had the walker airs in his. give him a try for his specs. he had them done locally.

[buffaloHAWK]

ALL shocks are a rising rate arent they? its the design of the arms and pivots that make it a falling rate in the hawk

[TLKD]

I am no shock revalving professional just, did a couple changes on those and tralked to some professionals (MTB and Hawks) and I kinda understand the basic principle. From my understanding, there is no way you're gonna make them progressive enough just with the valving to even just feel it.

Going with Air shocks would probably be a pretty good way to go, not that i have nothing against that but I've always thought coil over spring shocks to be the ones that have the most tuning capabilities and also because that's what the MX guys are using and DH World cut MTB guys are using... Sure enough you can shave the weight of the spring by going wih air shocks and add air to tune it on the fly... What sucks with the stock shocks we got is they have no external adjustments (rebound or compression) whatsoever that you can't tune your ride at all. As the guys from ADB told me back in '08 "Just preload your springs you'll be all right, these need to be preloaded..." FALSE that wasn't the cure at all.. And yes it can be revalved, they're 30mm bore shock and plenty of goodies to throw at if you're willing to.

And by definition, a spring is "progressive". When we say the spring has a rate of 280 pound per inch, that means the first inch requires 280 pounds of force to be compressed, the second inch, an additionnal 280 over the first, that's 560 and the third and last inch of the shock's travel requires 840. Times that by 2 because that's for every shock. Even though these numbers sounds big, the levers are sooooo out of bounds that this is not enough of a ramp-up to feel nice and soft at the beginning and fight the levers so you don't bottom it out at the end of the stroke. With revalving, you can "tune" a shim stack so that it is more speed sensitive, less speed sensitive, more damping or less damping, some professionals will be able to make them feel more progressive by using a weird shaped piston I've heard, but I don't think you'll go anywhere in the battefield of the "falling rate fight" by revalving your shocks. Take your spring off your shock just for fun, you'll be able to push the rod all the way in just with your bare hands. Adding a few shims either on the compression or rebound side of the shim stack is not gonna generate the 1000 (or so) more pounds of resistance you need to "push" against all your suspension's levers. No way, period. If you get close enough to the feeling you want with the progressive springs, then I'd suggest to start screwing around with this.

The solution to me, for a guy who'd like to stick with the stock suspension and make it work, would be these 3 things :

1 : Install Relocation brackets
2 : Install custom wound Progressive springs (something like 300-600) or a STACK of 2 springs. I ordered mine (Hawk and MTB) through cycleimprovements.com
3 : Relocate the top of your shock's mount maybe 1" further back, that would cut down the falling rate, just like what Rudeawakening did. You'll loose the last 2-3 inch of travel but that's no big deal since it's so far off the scale and useless anyways.

[tcskibike]

This is not the definition of progressive.

"when we say the spring has a rate of 280 pound per inch, that means the first inch requires 280 pounds of force to be compressed, the second inch, an additionnal 280 over the first, that's 560 and the third and last inch of the shock's travel requires 840."

In fact that is a straight rate... If you graph it you get a straight line. A progressive spring would graph like a parabola.

280 first inch 620 second inch ....990 third inch.. for example.


The reason air is used because when it is compressed it acts in a progressive manner not a linear rate.