Grand Mesa Riders FYI

[Bauer]

Most of us know where the cross-country areas are, so this is for those who don't. Be aware of them and how to pass through them. We don’t need access to areas closed because of mouth breathers. I would say it was a fairly written article saying the majority of snowmobiles are not to blame, just a few that may not know where they are, or don't care. If you’re one of those that doesn’t care.. I hope you get a ticket, and I hope it's expensive

http://www.gjsentinel.com/outdoors/a...lp_snowmobile/

[Red Mtn Rider]

I think that if you believe segregation is the answer when it comes to back country use, you are in for a rude awakening.The segregation idea is just plain stupid. It didn't work when we were talking black and white, it wont work when we talk motorized and non-motorized. That is what they are doing, except that there are never large sled specific areas set aside where skiers are not allowed. That means they look for weak excuses to expand into areas we ride. If you think capitulating and playing by the rules will save you anything, you are not being realistic about the situation. They do not play by the rules. If you need evidence of this check the news. The Colorado Senators are pushing for more wilderness areas. They are pushing for stiffer fines in all non-motorized areas, and our Pres is making unprecedented land grabs without using congress at all.

I happen to be extremely disappointed in the workings of the system. I have tried for years to play by the rules. I have made hundreds of intelligent arguments via letters and USFS meetings. I know dozens of others who have gone the same route with the same pathetic results. We as motorized users LOSE. We lose big EVERY SINGLE TIME. We are so pathetic, we are happy when we only lose a little.

The lefty greenies preach tolerance, yet they are intolerant everytime someone makes an innocent mistake. I'm not defending interntional actions here but who knows what happened. You are referring to PUBLIC LAND that we all pay taxes to maintain. I might suggest you re-evaluate how you view some of these issues. I have yet to see any progress by the CSA, ARRA, or any of them. The strategy of trying to work with other groups is failing in a big way. I wish I had suggestions on how to make this work in our favor, I don't.

I generally do not antogonize other user groups. I think that is simply rude. I do generally ride wherever the fawk I want though. I honestly think we as motorized forest users will someday have to rise up and make our case in a big way. Until then I might ride like a vigilante, just because I can. I also find a little civil disobediance these days as almost a necessity for my sanity. The world has gone mad, if you hadn't noticed. I will continue to enjoy myself as fully as possible until I no longer can. It isn't guys like me ruining it for you either. I might suggest the weak that capitulate with these folks and hang guys like me out to dry, are the real problem. Sledders need to grow a pair as a group, and soon.

[shonuff]

"The cost to the Grand Mesa Nordic Council to repair damage from snowmobiles runs up to $500 per day."

So they have to re-groom when a sled track goes through their trail. What to they do when it snow? Don't they have to groom. They need to blame mother nature too then

[Bauer]

Dayuuuuum Red Mtn..

Just so we are clear, I agree 100% with what you say, and most importantly the antagonize part. I don't agree with motorless areas, but I'm not going to stoop to thier level and restrict them from other areas.

Truth be told we are both up there to enjoy different aspects of the Mesa. They want quiet time so they can hear the trees cry, and we want to go where we have never been.

That being said, I posted the article because it took up an entire page in the paper today. And to inform those who may not know that they aren't supposed to be there. As you said we tend to lose anyway, there is no sense in provoking it.

Aside from that, from what I've seen of the areas we should avoid to "keep the peace" aren't any fun to ride in anyway.

Personally I have hauled out at least 5 x-country skiers with injuries, and they were very thankful and friendly. We need to be avocates for our sport and respect theirs as well.. Riding "where ever the fawk you want" isn't a great way to do that. That have very small "boring" areas, and we have the rest. The areas are well marked, there is no excuse to be there, and why would you want to be?

It all comes down to common courtesy, and respect. I don't go hauling ass through the Alexander Lake area because there are a lot of kids playing, family things going on and what not. When I ride out of Mesa Top across the trail the intersects the Skyway x-country trail keep on my marry way unless I see some skiiers, then I wait at the crossing and shut my sled off until they pass. It doesn't bother me in the least and they appreciate it.

[imasledder]

I approve of the previous postings!!

signed troll

[Bauer]

Thanks for the input Ray..

[imasledder]

So is the article only addressing the
X-trails or are peole poaching the meadows too......?

Are the meadows off-limits or just their trails?


I'm kinda confused.............

[Red Mtn Rider]

Originally Posted by Bauer

Dayuuuuum Red Mtn..

Just so we are clear, I agree 100% with what you say, and most importantly the antagonize part. I don't agree with motorless areas, but I'm not going to stoop to thier level and restrict them from other areas.

Then they will keep on taking from you, what part of that do you not understand? Here is a story for you... When sledders and skiers were fighting over Wolf Creek it was suggested to, and seriously considered by, the forset service, that skiers actually lose ground. You would have been amazed at how quickly THEY backed down and became resonable. This is the only situation I am aware of where this has happened. Stooping to their level is EXACTLY what needs to happen. Sledders need to wake up and acknowledge things like this.

Truth be told we are both up there to enjoy different aspects of the Mesa. They want quiet time so they can hear the trees cry, and we want to go where we have never been.

That being said, I posted the article because it took up an entire page in the paper today. And to inform those who may not know that they aren't supposed to be there. As you said we tend to lose anyway, there is no sense in provoking it.

I think that most of the time you are correct. However, not using a legal area because you want to keep the peace means you are giving it up. They will take that and more. I do understand that the section in question is an illegal area, but I think there is a bigger picture we all need to consider.

Aside from that, from what I've seen of the areas we should avoid to "keep the peace" aren't any fun to ride in anyway.

While that may be true of Grand Mesa, it certainly isn't on Red Mtn or Molas Pass. We have big issues in these places. You might want to consider this because if we lose places I prefer to GM, the Mesa is next, and you have a dozen more sledheads ripping up the pow making things more and more crowded as time goes on.

Personally I have hauled out at least 5 x-country skiers with injuries, and they were very thankful and friendly. We need to be avocates for our sport and respect theirs as well.. Riding "where ever the fawk you want" isn't a great way to do that. That have very small "boring" areas, and we have the rest. The areas are well marked, there is no excuse to be there, and why would you want to be?

You just do not get it. THOSE TAKING RIDING AREAS FROM US DO NOT CARE IF WE ARE RESPECTFUL OR GOOD ADVOCATES FOR OUR SPORT. If you think that works, you simply are not paying attention. Again, it may apply to Grand Mesa but there is a whole lot more in jepordy right now, and if you think the Mesa wont make the list, you are kidding yourself again.

It all comes down to common courtesy, and respect. I don't go hauling ass through the Alexander Lake area because there are a lot of kids playing, family things going on and what not. When I ride out of Mesa Top across the trail the intersects the Skyway x-country trail keep on my marry way unless I see some skiiers, then I wait at the crossing and shut my sled off until they pass. It doesn't bother me in the least and they appreciate it.

I also try to be respectful...until they start trying to claim land as their own, land that needs to be SHARED, not segregated. No offense intended Bauer, but I don't get the feeling you have spent much time down and dirty with land use issues. I think you have a pretty rosy view of what is really going on. While you are busy being respectful and trying to play ball, they are behind the woodshed screwing your daughter.

[Bauer]

Originally Posted by Red Mtn Rider

they are behind the woodshed screwing your daughter.

LMAO..

Again I agree with you. And I am very aware of how land use issues are handled.

I also know they piss and moan about sleds, that is of course, until the need a ride back with a busted ankle. And they are only thinking of themselves and what makes them feel a tickle inside.

More or less I was trying to say that there is no sense dumping gas on the fire. That may or may not give a little edge to discussions of land use.

Afterall you piss off one hippie they tell everyone, you help one hippie they may tell 5 people.

But ya. We need to stand our ground. Unfortunately the opposition shows up in force at the meetings, leaving us, well, less than fairly represented.

That needs to change.